Unlock the secrets to a thriving sales ecosystem where direct and channel sales don't just coexist, but amplify each other's success. Mike Coleman, the channel chief at First Orion, joins us to share his insights into how a robust partner ecosystem can catapult your market reach to new heights. If you've ever wondered how to foster a harmonious and effective division of labor between direct and channel sales, this conversation with Mike will illuminate the path. We also take a deep dive into First Orion's innovative branded calling technology that's setting the telecom world abuzz, enhancing call center connections and creating a win-win for agents and customers alike.
As we peel back the layers of channel sales strategy, we confront the myths head-on, dispelling the fog around costs and average selling prices. The episode is a masterclass in the scalability of channel models, detailing the timing, balance, and strategic implementation that can redefine your approach to revenue growth. Mike, with his channel expertise, not only demonstrates how First Orion tripled its success through partnerships but also provides a blueprint for when and how to weave a channel strategy into your business fabric. For anyone interested in leveraging partnerships for sales acceleration, or simply curious about branded calling's impact on call center dynamics, this episode packs strategic gems you won't want to miss.
Mike's LinkedIn Profile
First Orion website
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Mike Coleman: Well, I think the way to start is, if you're, if
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you're looking to build a sales machine, right, you need to
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bring in Leaders that have experience in both what I'll
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call the direct and the channel side, because the leaders then
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can bring the knowledge and experience about how to build it
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, what it will cost and how soon you can expect to generate
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revenue as a result.
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And I think some of the perception is that the direct
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sales force and in many cases it's true is more visible.
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Right, it there's, there's more control over it, you have a
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much tighter pipeline view because you can see them and
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enter it into their sales force entries.
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And so I think that's the perception.
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Well, let's start there, my Assertion and the reason that
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we've been successful at first or honest, because they brought
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me, and essentially to Really get started early and to bring
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that experience you know to the table to really build out.
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Maciej: Hello, welcome and thank you for tuning into channel
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voices, the podcast for future channel leaders, where we learn
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the ins and outs of partner ecosystems through casual
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conversations with channel professionals from a variety of
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industries, partner types and geographies.
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My name is Machek and I'm your host, mike Oman.
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Welcome to channel voices.
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Thank you so much for having me .
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Excited to be here.
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Lovely to have you, mike.
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You're the channel chief at first orient.
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Would you mind sharing a bit about your background and the
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journey that led you to the role as a channel chief at first
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orient?
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Mike Coleman: Yes, thank you, Maciej.
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Super excited to be here again and happy to share a bit of my
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background.
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So I've been in the channel pretty much my whole career.
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I started out working at Hewlett Packard in the channel,
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progressed into a channel role at SAP.
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I started out as a channel manager at the company channel
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role at Samsung, a couple of interim steps there and some
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startups and now Then I went to a via in the channel role,
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channel chief, and now I'm the channel chief at first Orion, so
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pretty much a channel Participant.
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You know Somebody that was been super interested and super
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supportive of the work that the channel can do on behalf of
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quote unquote the manufacturers or the publishers.
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The channel, once harnessed properly, is immeasurable and
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that's really the excitement of how to build a channel program
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that can extend the reach of an organization like first or irons
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Well into the marketplace beyond what a direct sales force
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could offer.
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Maciej: Fantastic.
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Thank you for that interesting Majority of the people that are
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in the channel.
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They speak about that.
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You know the massive reach that you have when you start working
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with partners, when you partner with other companies, be at a
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traditional sales channel or Alliances or whatever it may be
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right any shape or form of partnerships.
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Have you ever had a situation where People were not as
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receptive to the idea of channel and still believe that the
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direct route is the best route?
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Oh, Absolutely.
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Mike Coleman: Yeah, all organizations have kind of that,
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you know, point counterpoint discussion about the value of
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the channel versus the value of direct right.
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So, and it's a healthy discussion.
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And I said to Charles Morgan, who is our CEO, as I was kind of
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in the hiring process or being considered as a candidate to run
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the channel, I said you'll know we're making progress.
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When there's chatter in the channel, which is an interesting
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way, right, because that means that there's channel partners
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that have recognized the value of brandy calling in our case,
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they have essentially created awareness within their customer
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base and now that customer that may be shared amongst two or
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three channel partners Is interested and you have multiple
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channel partners kind of vying for that business, which is
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really what I want it and what we're starting to really see now
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.
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And you combine that with the awareness that's being created
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by what is our very small direct sales force and that's
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typically focusing on the larger Customers, right, which tend to
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want to have a bit more handholding.
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But we found that in many cases the channel partners can do,
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you know, just as good a job Supporting large customers,
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because they supply many things that those customers need, maybe
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not just point solutions along the way.
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So it's always a healthy debate.
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It's always a healthy discussion between direct and
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indirect and I think we've built a very solid business model
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with deal registration and guardrails and guidelines around
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.
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When a customer is registered by a channel partner, it's the
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channel partners domain and the direct team knows that they
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should go elsewhere, and vice versa right.
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If they found the opportunity to register it then Then they
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take the lead on it and that Division of labor, if you will,
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has been very powerful and I think it extends our reach as
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opposed to kind of finding some you know overlap where they're.
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When there's overlap, there's conflict, a lot of cases.
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Maciej: Perfect, and in terms of first Orion and the solution
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that you provide, that when we first started talking I needed
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to look it up.
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I did not, but necessarily I was aware of branded calling
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solutions.
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It's such a unique proposition in the market, right?
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Could you explain what your solution does, how it addresses
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challenges in the telecommunication space?
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Mike Coleman: Yeah, absolutely so.
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When I was in that interview process and interviewing with
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Charles and the other leadership folks, they know, the one thing
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that they asked me is what do you need?
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And I said, well, I'd like a super bowl ad, because I wanted
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to tell everybody about branded calling at once.
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Because the challenge is, to your point, there's not a whole
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lot of awareness in terms of what is branded calling, and so
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that's our job is to use the channel to extend our reach and
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the awareness of branded calling into that marketplace.
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And so, essentially, there's a significant and serious problem
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In the marketplace today when companies are trying to reach
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customers and or prospects, they find it very difficult.
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Right, because Nobody answers a call, an incoming call from an
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unidentified number.
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Pretty much right, because they've been trained to know
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that it could be a scam Call.
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It's somebody trying to sell them something they don't want,
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whatever that might be.
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It's created this kind of challenge for companies that are
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trying to reach their customers for very legitimate reasons and
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for very legitimate purposes, but all of a sudden they find
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themselves making countless calls to a customer that's
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expecting their call but not answering it.
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And so we've found and kind of pioneered a solution which we
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call branded calling, essentially, and it allows the
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company that's making an outbound call to essentially
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identify themselves by the company name and the reason for
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the call in 32 characters.
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And so essentially it's a very powerful tool because it
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essentially gives them the chance to say I'm a big box
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retailer with an appliance in my truck trying to get to your
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house for delivery, but you're not answering, right?
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So I mean that's big box appliance in route would be a
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good example of a retailer that's trying to deliver your
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refrigerator but nobody answers.
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Now they have to turn that truck around, put it back in
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inventory, try to reach you again and then try to establish
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a delivery route.
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So that's that's just one example of the power of the
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solution, that that we've been able to kind of pioneer and now
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sell into the marketplace.
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Maciej: That sounds very interesting and it makes a lot
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of sense when you, when you explained it, the, you mentioned
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a lot about you know extending that reach, trying to get to
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everybody so everybody knows about branded calling, what it
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is, what it does and how first Orion could, could help these
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companies.
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What other key responsibilities and goals are for for the
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channel team at first Orion?
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Mike Coleman: So interestingly enough, in this kind of a fairly
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new, emerging solution, if you will, there's three things we
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have to do as a channel organization, and that is to
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create awareness within the marketplace and within the
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channel community about the solution that solves a real
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world business problem that every one of their customers is
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dealing with it's trying to make outbound calls Then we
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essentially have to educate them .
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Once we've created the awareness, educate the reseller,
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the partner channel, as to how do you sell this right and how
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does it, how simple is it to implement, such that they can
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feel comfortable positioning it within their customer base and
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or prospects, and then ultimately creating the call to
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action.
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How do we get from awareness, through that kind of education
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differentiation cycle, to a point of revenue where we
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generate a profitable revenue stream with an annuity factor?
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Right for that channel partner, solving a problem that their
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customers already have In a way that's creating some.
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It's a reason for those partners to reach out to those
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existing customers or new ones with something that those
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customers likely haven't even heard about, don't know that it
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exists, and with a solution that's as powerful as we've
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described, it's resonates really well with that customer base
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and it creates value for the channel partner in the minds of
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the customer, right, because they're bringing them something
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new.
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It's a real world problem they're dealing with.
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One of the ancillary benefits we found, which was really
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interesting, was some of those customers that have large call
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centers that are making lots of outbound calls.
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Sure, the turnover rate in those call centers for those
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agents is very, very high.
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A portion of the turnover kind of reason is because they're
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measured on success, right, meaning being able to reach a
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customer, a solve a problem, sell them something, whatever
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the.
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You know that the success metrics are.
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And when they do reach a customer, when the answer rates
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you know are low to begin with them, when they do reach a
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customer, they spend the first 30 seconds trying to convince
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that customer they're not a scammer Right, trying to sell
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them something that they don't need or want, whatever it is.
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And so we found that when they use brand of calling to say such
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and such a bank fraud detection , right on the outbound call, so
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that when that customer answers they know it's their bank and
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the agent is calling them because there's a suspected I
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don't know inappropriate transaction on their credit card
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Right.
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So now the agent has a much better success rate of reaching
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a customer, solving their problem, fixing the issues
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whatever it might be, and less time trying to create the sense
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that it's real and it's not some arbitrary person impersonating
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the bank, you know, trying to get information out of you.
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So it's interesting.
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The turnover rate we've seen has gone down, which is an
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ancillary benefit of brand of calling, and the success slash,
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traction or however you want to quantify it for those customers
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has gone up as a result of this brand of calling solution.
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Maciej: Do you have any white papers available that talk about
00:12:06
a little bit about this and maybe has some statistics on on
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the subject?
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We certainly do magic.
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Mike Coleman: We have a wealth of information on first Orion
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dot com, which is our essentially our website portal,
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and we have a partner page which , essentially, as an authorized
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reseller or partner that's interested in becoming
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authorized, we'll have access to a very deep and rich database
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of Referenceable accounts we've had.
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We call the ROI analysis of the what we call the five success
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metrics.
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So we ask a customer what are the three to five success
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metrics for your outbound calling campaign?
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And they'll say something like our answer rates have to improve
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, our talk time Needs to improve .
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Our decline rates, you know, go down.
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Our call back rates go up because even with first Orion,
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when somebody doesn't answer, it says whoever that company was
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in their call log tried to.
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So now their call back rates go up.
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So they define that success metric on the front end and then
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we measure the analytics, which are very rich, the kind of the
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success of the metrics that they define as critical, and so we
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have that published in a certain section as well.
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We have lots of conversations and stories and guidance that we
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offer to those partners to help them sell on our behalf.
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Maciej: There is obviously the overall strategy of first Orion
00:13:40
as a company and what you were, what you are aiming to achieve.
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But what role do partnerships and partnerships and
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collaborations, what role do they play in that strategy?
00:13:53
If you could elaborate a little bit on that.
00:13:59
Mike Coleman: Sure.
00:13:59
So our strategy, as I mentioned , is to create that awareness
00:14:03
within the channel community about this solution, which
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really has two different flavors .
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One is the 32 character text string, which allows you to
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define who's calling and why in text, but we also have a
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solution that includes the logo.
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So we have a solution called engage.
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Now it's an SDK based, where you have to have an SDK software
00:14:24
developer kit on your app, right, but it allows the company
00:14:28
that's calling you if you have, for example, their app on your
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phone it will come through with the logo of the company that's
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calling and the reason for the call.
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So it's a very powerful kind of imaging process as well.
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So when we were working on a non SDK version of that as well,
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and so that's the future right of calling, where not only can
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we identify now with the 32 character string For these
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partners to be able to share that with their customers, now
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we can add other things on top of that, like, for example, the,
00:15:01
the ability to add a customer's logo.
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In addition, we have some other things that are very unique to
00:15:07
first Orion, and one is called paired.
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So it's a paired solution that comes with our informed product
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and essentially it requires an API integration, but it's a very
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simple solution where, essentially, the outbound calls
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we define as an A number, meaning the number you're
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calling from, and B is the company number you're calling.
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So when A calls B, this API integration detects that A is
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calling B and so essentially we're eliminating the
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interceptability of that for a spoofing purpose.
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And only when A is calling B in what we call a time to live,
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which you can define as 30 or 60 seconds, will the branding
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traverse the call.
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So companies, especially banks and financial institutions that
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are really worried about their calls being spoofed or
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intercepted, this is a very unique solution that essentially
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enables them to ensure that when that branding traverses the
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networks and speak, it's only when A is calling B that because
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they've told us they're calling that number.
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Otherwise the call will go through, but it won't go through
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with any branding.
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We've also added another layer of solutions, if you will, if
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you think about kind of the stack, and it's called century
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and we're actually able to block outbound calls when we've
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detected that it's being spoofed by what we call bad actors, and
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so that's a really interesting solution that many banks and
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financial institutions are embracing insurance companies
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and such because they have a challenge with spoofing where
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companies are calling allegedly on their behalf and they're not,
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and extracting information, money whatever from those
00:16:58
customers because they think so and so is calling.
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So we've added lots of different layers, and so that's
00:17:03
the value stack that we offered to the channel partners that
00:17:05
they can then sell to their customers and prospects.
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Maciej: Perfect and in terms of your channel overall, just
00:17:16
looking back at last year, 2023, how did channel perform for
00:17:21
First Orion?
00:17:23
Mike Coleman: Exceptionally well .
00:17:24
We effectively tripled the revenue over 2022, which was
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just a wonderful stat to be able to share, and we've branded
00:17:38
well over a billion and a half calls in 2023, which is just
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amazing.
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And obviously, with that trajectory, we're expecting to
00:17:49
brand significantly more than that here in 2024.
00:17:53
So the channel has done really well.
00:17:55
We've expanded the team, we've added quite a few different
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channel sales reps, we've incorporated quite a few new
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channel partners into the First Orion family.
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We're actually recruiting a few others selectively.
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So at this point, and we're really starting to build that
00:18:13
momentum within the channel community, the awareness, the
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differentiation, and then we co-sell with them, where our
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teams will actually help them sell the solution for the first
00:18:23
couple of deals so that they get the handle and get the feel for
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it, and then at that point then we've trained the trainer, if
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you will, and off they go.
00:18:33
Maciej: Right and interesting.
00:18:35
You said interesting.
00:18:37
I suppose it goes hand in hand.
00:18:39
When you have results like this , you do hire more people
00:18:42
because there's going to be more demand, there's bigger plans.
00:18:47
If you tripled it last year, I'm sure the board members are
00:18:51
asking for more, as it usually is Never enough.
00:18:55
So when you started at First Orion, how big was the channel
00:19:01
team versus what it is now?
00:19:05
Mike Coleman: When I first started.
00:19:06
We've doubled the team since then and I'm coming up on two
00:19:11
and a half years.
00:19:11
So we've doubled the team and tripled the revenue and we
00:19:17
expect that trajectory to continue this year.
00:19:20
Maciej: And with hiring people specifically for those channel
00:19:26
roles.
00:19:26
How do you approach building a high-performing channel team?
00:19:31
What qualities do you look for when you bring in new team
00:19:36
members?
00:19:36
When you scan through CVs that make onto your desk, what is it
00:19:42
that you look for?
00:19:43
Mike Coleman: Another great question.
00:19:45
As you can see, it's kind of an art and a science.
00:19:49
Maciej: So the science, definitely the definition of the
00:19:52
channel, isn't it?
00:19:54
Mike Coleman: Yes.
00:19:55
So the science side of it is that we look for people that
00:19:59
have deep channel experience, have solid kind of ecosystem
00:20:04
relationships with existing partners, existing vendors, if
00:20:10
you will, publishers, whatever you say kind of in that
00:20:12
ecosystem.
00:20:13
They have a good network of existing customers that they've
00:20:17
been working with through those channel partners.
00:20:18
But we look for that as a starting point because it's for
00:20:23
us as a fairly small company growing quickly, we don't have
00:20:28
the luxury of training those folks in terms of what a channel
00:20:33
is.
00:20:33
So we look for folks that come with great experience and we
00:20:35
found quite a few folks that have been great additions to the
00:20:39
team.
00:20:39
So that's kind of the first thing we look for.
00:20:41
The second thing we look for is really the cultural fit,
00:20:46
because first, orion is a very I'll call it a familial family.
00:20:49
It's we kind of nurture and support and really help folks
00:20:54
become successful from a channel perspective and need to be a
00:20:58
really good cultural fit within the organization.
00:21:00
So obviously that's really important and we cherish the
00:21:03
culture that we've built and we want to make sure we maintain
00:21:05
that, and so the cultural fit is critical.
00:21:09
Then we need somebody that I the way I look at it is that has
00:21:13
kind of a diversified background that understands
00:21:16
technology, understands the selling process, understands
00:21:19
empathy as a good listener to their partners, to their
00:21:23
customers, understands that a channel partner has to be
00:21:25
profitable right, because it can't all be about us at their
00:21:29
expense, right.
00:21:30
That's a recipe for disaster.
00:21:32
So we're very careful to make sure that those folks that we
00:21:37
interview are mindful of that, have a good history of success
00:21:41
in that channel organization, mindful of the fact that it is a
00:21:44
give get kind of thing where we give them a product to sell, we
00:21:48
get revenue, but we also have to give them a survivable margin
00:21:53
right and a profitability base that makes sense.
00:21:56
And we have a solid channel partner program that we've built
00:22:00
, channel portal that we leverage.
00:22:03
We have the guardrails in place to keep them kind of the
00:22:06
channel partners, comfortable with the fact that they can
00:22:09
share with us their prospects and their pipeline.
00:22:12
Once they register it, it gets protected in Salesforce and such
00:22:16
.
00:22:16
So I think we've built what I consider to be a really solid
00:22:20
kind of foundation to support the success of the folks, the
00:22:25
channel folks that we've hired, and I think that's been a really
00:22:28
good, solid recipe for success in 23.
00:22:31
And certainly in my career, those lessons continue to
00:22:35
persist as you move into this year and beyond.
00:22:39
Maciej: So when you talk about, you're looking at people who do
00:22:45
have existing relationships with partners, etc.
00:22:48
That sounds to me that you are still in a partner recruitment
00:22:52
mode.
00:22:52
You still need more partners.
00:22:55
Mike Coleman: We do.
00:22:55
We do Well, to your point earlier, we've tripled the
00:22:58
business from 22 to 23,.
00:23:00
But it's never enough, right?
00:23:02
The quotas we've just been assigned are significant.
00:23:05
I always say that we need as many oars in the water as
00:23:11
possible to row this boat.
00:23:12
The channel oars for us are incredibly powerful.
00:23:19
As I mentioned, we'll be selective in the recruiting but
00:23:22
at the same time, we're still very much interested in
00:23:25
embracing channel partners that are interested either in
00:23:29
learning more about our solution , those that have already
00:23:32
learned about it from others that want to get in on the
00:23:35
opportunity, and those that haven't even expressed interest
00:23:39
yet.
00:23:39
That we meet at.
00:23:40
We attend a lot of trade shows and a lot of partner events.
00:23:44
In those conversations and in those meetings we find, to your
00:23:48
point earlier, there's a lot of supporting vendors that aren't
00:23:54
competing with us but they can leverage, especially CCAS, cpas
00:23:58
players.
00:23:58
They can leverage the power of a branded call because their
00:24:01
call center solutions rely on people answering the phone the
00:24:05
other end, right, we've partnered with folks in that
00:24:07
ecosystem as well that have helped propel us and we help
00:24:11
propel them.
00:24:14
Maciej: Looking ahead, this is where we are.
00:24:16
We finished 2023.
00:24:17
It is January.
00:24:18
You've received your quotas.
00:24:21
You're hiring people.
00:24:23
What is the most exciting thing for you as the channel chief at
00:24:31
First Orion?
00:24:31
When you look to the future, what is it that excites you the
00:24:34
most?
00:24:36
Mike Coleman: The thing that drew me to First Orion was the
00:24:40
fact that we have an absolutely new and exciting solution that
00:24:47
solves a business problem that every company making outbound
00:24:50
calls has.
00:24:51
And my excitement and my challenge is to get the word out
00:24:56
so much broader and wider into the ecosystem, because the more
00:25:02
people that know about it, the more they can embrace it and
00:25:04
represent us into their customer base.
00:25:07
It brings real value to those channel partners.
00:25:09
We've had a couple of partners at a recent event that they've
00:25:13
invited me to speak at their Chamber of Commerce event in
00:25:17
Harrisburg, pennsylvania, believe it or not, because they
00:25:20
were so excited about the solution.
00:25:22
They wanted to tell all of their channel Chamber of
00:25:25
Commerce friends, so to speak, that this solution exists to
00:25:29
create the awareness.
00:25:30
It's a really interesting ecosystem.
00:25:32
That's what I'm most excited about is without a Super Bowl ad
00:25:37
budget, I need to leverage the channel partners to create that
00:25:41
awareness.
00:25:41
We have quite a few channel events coming up IT Expo, where
00:25:47
I'll be a speaker at IT Expo.
00:25:49
Channel partners, where we'll have a presence and hopefully a
00:25:53
speaking spot.
00:25:54
Those to us, those speaking spots in those channel events,
00:25:57
are super powerful because it's a one to many where I can tell
00:26:00
the story once, and then people come to the booth, which is
00:26:03
really a powerful message for us and that's part of our strategy
00:26:06
going forward this year.
00:26:09
Maciej: I asked you earlier about.
00:26:10
Do you have situations where people don't necessarily agree
00:26:16
or have some reservations?
00:26:18
That channel is one of the best way, if not the best way, to
00:26:22
get to market.
00:26:22
But, from your experience, what are common misconceptions that
00:26:28
you would have heard about the channel?
00:26:30
Mike Coleman: Yeah, that's a great point.
00:26:32
I've heard that through every company I've worked for.
00:26:34
I think the biggest misconception is that there's a
00:26:38
perception that channel is expensive.
00:26:40
It's not.
00:26:43
So my job is and I call it the fully burdened cost model where,
00:26:48
if you think about it, what would it cost us to hire a
00:26:51
direct sales rep?
00:26:52
What kind of a ramp do they have in terms of coming up to
00:26:56
speed?
00:26:57
What does the prospecting cycle look like for them?
00:26:59
How long will that take?
00:27:00
How much do we have to pay them in commissions?
00:27:02
How long will it take them to get to speed, if you will to
00:27:05
revenue?
00:27:07
And so we have to model that in a very honest way.
00:27:11
It says okay, here's the cost of a direct sales force, direct
00:27:14
sales person, etc.
00:27:15
Let's compare that to the channel where, in my world, it's
00:27:19
an off-payroll sales force but based on we have kind of a
00:27:24
wholesale model and a referral model.
00:27:25
So they're different in certain ways.
00:27:27
But anyway, the commission rate that we pay and or the
00:27:32
wholesale rate that we offer, is a very competitive base, if you
00:27:36
will, with which the partners can kind of make money.
00:27:40
And we factored our cost into those.
00:27:43
I'll call it base statistics, and so when you show that to the
00:27:51
leadership.
00:27:51
I think it becomes pretty obvious.
00:27:54
The other factor that well, I guess I should say it was an
00:27:58
assumption that what we call ASP , or average selling price,
00:28:02
would be lower from a channel partner than it would be from a
00:28:06
direct sale, and I think we've proven that it's not.
00:28:09
In some cases we actually have a higher ASP and in some cases
00:28:15
we're about flat, but it's definitely not the perceived
00:28:18
notion that the channel is very expensive and delivers revenue
00:28:26
at a lower average selling price .
00:28:27
And so I think those are some of the myths that we had to
00:28:30
dispel, and I think we've been successful at that so far.
00:28:33
Maciej: I'm glad that you haven't only just given me the
00:28:38
misconceptions, but also how you have, in the past, overcome
00:28:42
these.
00:28:43
That's really great.
00:28:44
Thank you for that.
00:28:45
And then I always ask this question nobody gets off the
00:28:52
podcast without hearing this question.
00:28:54
Mike, what is the one thing you wish you knew before you
00:29:00
started your career in channel?
00:29:01
Mike Coleman: Yeah.
00:29:02
So another really interesting question and I've given that
00:29:04
some thoughts since we kind of prepped.
00:29:06
So I think the answer is I wish I knew earlier the power of the
00:29:12
channel, how much fuel I would have had to put into the machine
00:29:16
to get it started, and then the speed with which you can
00:29:23
deliver through a channel partner network ecosystem is
00:29:28
incredibly powerful and what an extension it is.
00:29:30
And so we've proven that out time and time again.
00:29:32
But earlier in my career I didn't realize that that was as
00:29:36
powerful as it was, and part of the challenge was to have to
00:29:41
prove it ahead of revenue, to say to the leadership look,
00:29:46
we're going to invest as we are now.
00:29:47
We're building a channel program.
00:29:51
It doesn't start out with zero dollars, right, there's got to
00:29:53
be a funding mechanism in place to support the build.
00:29:56
We need tools, things that we put in place, and we need to
00:29:59
hire reps that you'll come with experience, and so I think all
00:30:03
of that has been a successful formula investing ahead of
00:30:06
revenue, knowing that when you kind of invest ahead of revenue,
00:30:11
you pour fuel into that machine , you get a benefit.
00:30:14
It may be a slight delay, but you see reasonably significant
00:30:21
awareness, pipeline build and activity over a fairly short
00:30:25
period of time.
00:30:26
That then proves to the leadership that this channel
00:30:30
thing is gaining traction.
00:30:32
It's building momentum and, generally speaking, it generally
00:30:37
in my case it's always paid off and been very successful.
00:30:42
When we look back on it we're like, wow, we should have done
00:30:44
that earlier.
00:30:48
Maciej: When do you think a company should start about
00:30:54
thinking of introducing channel into their go-to-market strategy
00:30:57
?
00:30:57
Just as a follow-up question to this, because there's so many,
00:31:04
I suppose it depends who you speak to and what stage the
00:31:06
company is at, but they kind of try to push it out as long as
00:31:11
they can before they start thinking about channel.
00:31:15
Is it at the scale-up?
00:31:17
Is it really from the get-go, from a startup type of motion,
00:31:22
or from your experience, from what you have seen, when do you
00:31:27
think is the right time?
00:31:29
Mike Coleman: Well, I think the way to start is, if you're
00:31:33
looking to build a sales machine , you need to bring in leaders
00:31:39
that have experience in both what I'll call the direct and
00:31:42
the channel side, because the leaders then can bring the
00:31:45
knowledge and experience about how to build it, what it will
00:31:48
cost and how soon you can expect to generate revenue as a result
00:31:53
.
00:31:53
I think some of the perception is that the direct sales force
00:31:57
and in many cases, it's true, is more visible, right, there's
00:32:02
more control over it.
00:32:04
You have a much tighter pipeline view because you can
00:32:08
see them entered into their sales force entries.
00:32:10
So I think that's the perception.
00:32:13
Well, let's start there.
00:32:13
My assertion and the reason that we've been successful at
00:32:18
First Derigne is because they brought me and essentially to
00:32:23
really get started early and to bring that experience to the
00:32:28
table, to really build out an ecosystem that could be as
00:32:33
powerful, if not more powerful, than a direct machine and, with
00:32:37
a bit of faith and support and understanding of the way that
00:32:43
the channel works and operates and the power that it can bring
00:32:46
when harnessed and fueled properly.
00:32:48
I think it's best to start maybe with both points of direct
00:32:54
and the enderline, so that you can at least measure the success
00:32:58
of both.
00:32:58
For early stage companies, sometimes you don't know what
00:33:02
you don't know and you don't know if the channel is going to
00:33:05
really be successful or direct is, or both or neither.
00:33:08
I should say Right.
00:33:10
You also have to have a product that's interesting to the
00:33:18
channel ecosystem right?
00:33:19
If you're just selling another widget that they already have 10
00:33:22
of with a different color, you know that's not really going to
00:33:28
resonate with the ecosystem because they already have a
00:33:31
solution that they can meet their customers needs.
00:33:33
For us, we're bringing something so unique and so
00:33:36
interesting and so easily understandable that it's easy
00:33:41
for them to either introduce us to their customers with faith
00:33:46
that we're going to represent them well, which we certainly do
00:33:50
or, once they get comfortable enough, they do it themselves.
00:33:53
It's so unique and interesting and easy to implement, which we
00:33:58
didn't really talk about.
00:33:59
All you need to do is register the outbound phone numbers with
00:34:04
our solution called free caller registrycom.
00:34:06
Essentially, once you register them, we vet those numbers to
00:34:10
make sure that your company owns those numbers right and that
00:34:12
you're not trying to be somebody you're not.
00:34:15
Once those numbers are vetted and we attest that they in fact
00:34:20
are owned by said company, then we allow you to kind of access
00:34:26
our portal and in that portal, as a partner doing it for the
00:34:30
customer or the customer doing it kind of after the partners
00:34:34
introduced them to it, then they have access to the portal where
00:34:37
they can actually in real time look at the essentially the
00:34:41
outbound call and what it will appear as if when it lands on
00:34:45
that B number or that cell phone right, and they can actually
00:34:49
decide how do I want that 32-character text string to look
00:34:53
?
00:34:53
Now, of course that has to be vetted too.
00:34:55
The carriers rely heavily on us to make sure that nothing
00:34:57
inappropriate is being entered into those 32-character string,
00:35:02
which is a big responsibility for us and something we take
00:35:06
very seriously.
00:35:07
But assuming the numbers are registered properly, the
00:35:10
businesses are vetted and the branding is vetted by us and by
00:35:16
the carrier so that it's OK, they can actually start
00:35:20
essentially A-B testing it too.
00:35:22
They may say big box retail appliance in route or big box
00:35:30
delivery in route, or they can play with it to see what.
00:35:33
Maybe that can tweak their answer rates or their successful
00:35:36
delivery rates.
00:35:38
We have one of our best examples is a blood donor company called
00:35:42
448.
00:35:43
They actually run call centers for companies like the American
00:35:46
Red Cross that essentially are looking for blood donors.
00:35:51
People don't answer the call when it's a blank number.
00:35:55
Now they have a great example, which is one of the reference
00:35:58
accounts that you'll see on our website, where there was an
00:36:03
unfortunate accident on Thanksgiving evening of last
00:36:06
year in one of the cities in Texas multiple trauma patients
00:36:12
transported to the hospital.
00:36:13
Turns out many of them were O-negative blood type.
00:36:16
The hospital was running out of O-negative.
00:36:18
They called the call center that our partner runs.
00:36:21
They put out an immediate call to their known donors in that
00:36:27
zip code saying XYZ blood centers, o-negative, urgent.
00:36:32
And the response they got because that call was identified
00:36:37
by the blood center and O-negative urgent was
00:36:39
significant and the CEO talks about that in some of the
00:36:43
testimonials that we have there.
00:36:44
So it's a great way to kind of put the humanness into it a
00:36:48
little bit, to explain how powerful the tool can be and how
00:36:52
in real time it essentially can be utilized and the success
00:36:56
that our partners have generated as a result of that Fantastic.
00:37:01
Maciej: Thank you, mike, for coming onto the show.
00:37:03
Thank you for introducing First Orion to us.
00:37:07
Thank you for educating me, especially on the branded
00:37:11
calling solutions, what they are and why are they so unique, but
00:37:16
also for telling us about your career in the channel, how you
00:37:22
run the channel today, what the plans are in terms of your
00:37:26
channel at First Orion.
00:37:27
It's been very educational for me.
00:37:30
Thank you very much for joining .
00:37:31
I hope I'll be speaking with you soon again.
00:37:34
Mike Coleman: I appreciate the opportunity Magic.
00:37:37
Thank you for having me and we'll certainly be in touch and
00:37:40
connect next time as well.
00:37:41
Thank you very much.
00:37:42
Thank you.
00:37:44
Maciej: And that's a wrap for this episode.
00:37:46
I do hope you found it valuable and, if you did, please make
00:37:50
sure to subscribe and leave a review.
00:37:51
You can also follow Channel Voices podcast on LinkedIn,
00:37:55
twitter and Facebook, or just visit Channelvoicescom, where
00:37:59
you can send me a message or leave a voicemail.
00:38:02
All of the links are listed in the show notes and, once again,
00:38:06
I appreciate you tuning in today Until next time.
00:38:09
Bye.
Mike Coleman: Well, I think the way to start is, if you're, if
00:00:03
you're looking to build a sales machine, right, you need to
00:00:08
bring in Leaders that have experience in both what I'll
00:00:11
call the direct and the channel side, because the leaders then
00:00:14
can bring the knowledge and experience about how to build it
00:00:18
, what it will cost and how soon you can expect to generate
00:00:22
revenue as a result.
00:00:23
And I think some of the perception is that the direct
00:00:26
sales force and in many cases it's true is more visible.
00:00:31
Right, it there's, there's more control over it, you have a
00:00:36
much tighter pipeline view because you can see them and
00:00:39
enter it into their sales force entries.
00:00:41
And so I think that's the perception.
00:00:43
Well, let's start there, my Assertion and the reason that
00:00:48
we've been successful at first or honest, because they brought
00:00:50
me, and essentially to Really get started early and to bring
00:00:56
that experience you know to the table to really build out.
00:01:05
Maciej: Hello, welcome and thank you for tuning into channel
00:01:08
voices, the podcast for future channel leaders, where we learn
00:01:12
the ins and outs of partner ecosystems through casual
00:01:16
conversations with channel professionals from a variety of
00:01:19
industries, partner types and geographies.
00:01:22
My name is Machek and I'm your host, mike Oman.
00:01:28
Welcome to channel voices.
00:01:30
Thank you so much for having me .
00:01:32
Excited to be here.
00:01:33
Lovely to have you, mike.
00:01:36
You're the channel chief at first orient.
00:01:39
Would you mind sharing a bit about your background and the
00:01:44
journey that led you to the role as a channel chief at first
00:01:48
orient?
00:01:50
Mike Coleman: Yes, thank you, Maciej.
00:01:51
Super excited to be here again and happy to share a bit of my
00:01:54
background.
00:01:54
So I've been in the channel pretty much my whole career.
00:01:57
I started out working at Hewlett Packard in the channel,
00:02:01
progressed into a channel role at SAP.
00:02:05
I started out as a channel manager at the company channel
00:02:08
role at Samsung, a couple of interim steps there and some
00:02:12
startups and now Then I went to a via in the channel role,
00:02:15
channel chief, and now I'm the channel chief at first Orion, so
00:02:21
pretty much a channel Participant.
00:02:23
You know Somebody that was been super interested and super
00:02:25
supportive of the work that the channel can do on behalf of
00:02:29
quote unquote the manufacturers or the publishers.
00:02:31
The channel, once harnessed properly, is immeasurable and
00:02:36
that's really the excitement of how to build a channel program
00:02:40
that can extend the reach of an organization like first or irons
00:02:43
Well into the marketplace beyond what a direct sales force
00:02:47
could offer.
00:02:49
Maciej: Fantastic.
00:02:49
Thank you for that interesting Majority of the people that are
00:02:55
in the channel.
00:02:55
They speak about that.
00:02:57
You know the massive reach that you have when you start working
00:03:00
with partners, when you partner with other companies, be at a
00:03:05
traditional sales channel or Alliances or whatever it may be
00:03:11
right any shape or form of partnerships.
00:03:13
Have you ever had a situation where People were not as
00:03:20
receptive to the idea of channel and still believe that the
00:03:22
direct route is the best route?
00:03:24
Oh, Absolutely.
00:03:27
Mike Coleman: Yeah, all organizations have kind of that,
00:03:31
you know, point counterpoint discussion about the value of
00:03:35
the channel versus the value of direct right.
00:03:37
So, and it's a healthy discussion.
00:03:38
And I said to Charles Morgan, who is our CEO, as I was kind of
00:03:43
in the hiring process or being considered as a candidate to run
00:03:47
the channel, I said you'll know we're making progress.
00:03:51
When there's chatter in the channel, which is an interesting
00:03:55
way, right, because that means that there's channel partners
00:03:58
that have recognized the value of brandy calling in our case,
00:04:02
they have essentially created awareness within their customer
00:04:05
base and now that customer that may be shared amongst two or
00:04:08
three channel partners Is interested and you have multiple
00:04:11
channel partners kind of vying for that business, which is
00:04:15
really what I want it and what we're starting to really see now
00:04:17
.
00:04:17
And you combine that with the awareness that's being created
00:04:21
by what is our very small direct sales force and that's
00:04:25
typically focusing on the larger Customers, right, which tend to
00:04:31
want to have a bit more handholding.
00:04:32
But we found that in many cases the channel partners can do,
00:04:36
you know, just as good a job Supporting large customers,
00:04:40
because they supply many things that those customers need, maybe
00:04:43
not just point solutions along the way.
00:04:45
So it's always a healthy debate.
00:04:47
It's always a healthy discussion between direct and
00:04:49
indirect and I think we've built a very solid business model
00:04:53
with deal registration and guardrails and guidelines around
00:04:57
.
00:04:57
When a customer is registered by a channel partner, it's the
00:05:01
channel partners domain and the direct team knows that they
00:05:04
should go elsewhere, and vice versa right.
00:05:07
If they found the opportunity to register it then Then they
00:05:10
take the lead on it and that Division of labor, if you will,
00:05:14
has been very powerful and I think it extends our reach as
00:05:18
opposed to kind of finding some you know overlap where they're.
00:05:21
When there's overlap, there's conflict, a lot of cases.
00:05:26
Maciej: Perfect, and in terms of first Orion and the solution
00:05:32
that you provide, that when we first started talking I needed
00:05:36
to look it up.
00:05:36
I did not, but necessarily I was aware of branded calling
00:05:42
solutions.
00:05:42
It's such a unique proposition in the market, right?
00:05:46
Could you explain what your solution does, how it addresses
00:05:53
challenges in the telecommunication space?
00:05:56
Mike Coleman: Yeah, absolutely so.
00:05:57
When I was in that interview process and interviewing with
00:06:01
Charles and the other leadership folks, they know, the one thing
00:06:03
that they asked me is what do you need?
00:06:05
And I said, well, I'd like a super bowl ad, because I wanted
00:06:09
to tell everybody about branded calling at once.
00:06:12
Because the challenge is, to your point, there's not a whole
00:06:16
lot of awareness in terms of what is branded calling, and so
00:06:19
that's our job is to use the channel to extend our reach and
00:06:22
the awareness of branded calling into that marketplace.
00:06:24
And so, essentially, there's a significant and serious problem
00:06:30
In the marketplace today when companies are trying to reach
00:06:34
customers and or prospects, they find it very difficult.
00:06:38
Right, because Nobody answers a call, an incoming call from an
00:06:43
unidentified number.
00:06:45
Pretty much right, because they've been trained to know
00:06:48
that it could be a scam Call.
00:06:50
It's somebody trying to sell them something they don't want,
00:06:53
whatever that might be.
00:06:54
It's created this kind of challenge for companies that are
00:06:59
trying to reach their customers for very legitimate reasons and
00:07:02
for very legitimate purposes, but all of a sudden they find
00:07:06
themselves making countless calls to a customer that's
00:07:09
expecting their call but not answering it.
00:07:11
And so we've found and kind of pioneered a solution which we
00:07:17
call branded calling, essentially, and it allows the
00:07:20
company that's making an outbound call to essentially
00:07:24
identify themselves by the company name and the reason for
00:07:29
the call in 32 characters.
00:07:31
And so essentially it's a very powerful tool because it
00:07:37
essentially gives them the chance to say I'm a big box
00:07:41
retailer with an appliance in my truck trying to get to your
00:07:46
house for delivery, but you're not answering, right?
00:07:50
So I mean that's big box appliance in route would be a
00:07:54
good example of a retailer that's trying to deliver your
00:07:57
refrigerator but nobody answers.
00:07:59
Now they have to turn that truck around, put it back in
00:08:02
inventory, try to reach you again and then try to establish
00:08:05
a delivery route.
00:08:05
So that's that's just one example of the power of the
00:08:08
solution, that that we've been able to kind of pioneer and now
00:08:14
sell into the marketplace.
00:08:16
Maciej: That sounds very interesting and it makes a lot
00:08:19
of sense when you, when you explained it, the, you mentioned
00:08:24
a lot about you know extending that reach, trying to get to
00:08:29
everybody so everybody knows about branded calling, what it
00:08:33
is, what it does and how first Orion could, could help these
00:08:36
companies.
00:08:37
What other key responsibilities and goals are for for the
00:08:45
channel team at first Orion?
00:08:47
Mike Coleman: So interestingly enough, in this kind of a fairly
00:08:53
new, emerging solution, if you will, there's three things we
00:08:57
have to do as a channel organization, and that is to
00:09:00
create awareness within the marketplace and within the
00:09:03
channel community about the solution that solves a real
00:09:06
world business problem that every one of their customers is
00:09:10
dealing with it's trying to make outbound calls Then we
00:09:13
essentially have to educate them .
00:09:15
Once we've created the awareness, educate the reseller,
00:09:18
the partner channel, as to how do you sell this right and how
00:09:22
does it, how simple is it to implement, such that they can
00:09:25
feel comfortable positioning it within their customer base and
00:09:28
or prospects, and then ultimately creating the call to
00:09:31
action.
00:09:32
How do we get from awareness, through that kind of education
00:09:35
differentiation cycle, to a point of revenue where we
00:09:40
generate a profitable revenue stream with an annuity factor?
00:09:43
Right for that channel partner, solving a problem that their
00:09:47
customers already have In a way that's creating some.
00:09:50
It's a reason for those partners to reach out to those
00:09:53
existing customers or new ones with something that those
00:09:56
customers likely haven't even heard about, don't know that it
00:09:59
exists, and with a solution that's as powerful as we've
00:10:03
described, it's resonates really well with that customer base
00:10:10
and it creates value for the channel partner in the minds of
00:10:14
the customer, right, because they're bringing them something
00:10:17
new.
00:10:17
It's a real world problem they're dealing with.
00:10:20
One of the ancillary benefits we found, which was really
00:10:22
interesting, was some of those customers that have large call
00:10:27
centers that are making lots of outbound calls.
00:10:29
Sure, the turnover rate in those call centers for those
00:10:34
agents is very, very high.
00:10:35
A portion of the turnover kind of reason is because they're
00:10:42
measured on success, right, meaning being able to reach a
00:10:45
customer, a solve a problem, sell them something, whatever
00:10:48
the.
00:10:48
You know that the success metrics are.
00:10:50
And when they do reach a customer, when the answer rates
00:10:54
you know are low to begin with them, when they do reach a
00:10:56
customer, they spend the first 30 seconds trying to convince
00:11:00
that customer they're not a scammer Right, trying to sell
00:11:03
them something that they don't need or want, whatever it is.
00:11:05
And so we found that when they use brand of calling to say such
00:11:10
and such a bank fraud detection , right on the outbound call, so
00:11:15
that when that customer answers they know it's their bank and
00:11:19
the agent is calling them because there's a suspected I
00:11:23
don't know inappropriate transaction on their credit card
00:11:26
Right.
00:11:28
So now the agent has a much better success rate of reaching
00:11:33
a customer, solving their problem, fixing the issues
00:11:36
whatever it might be, and less time trying to create the sense
00:11:40
that it's real and it's not some arbitrary person impersonating
00:11:45
the bank, you know, trying to get information out of you.
00:11:48
So it's interesting.
00:11:48
The turnover rate we've seen has gone down, which is an
00:11:52
ancillary benefit of brand of calling, and the success slash,
00:11:55
traction or however you want to quantify it for those customers
00:11:59
has gone up as a result of this brand of calling solution.
00:12:03
Maciej: Do you have any white papers available that talk about
00:12:06
a little bit about this and maybe has some statistics on on
00:12:11
the subject?
00:12:11
We certainly do magic.
00:12:14
Mike Coleman: We have a wealth of information on first Orion
00:12:17
dot com, which is our essentially our website portal,
00:12:21
and we have a partner page which , essentially, as an authorized
00:12:24
reseller or partner that's interested in becoming
00:12:27
authorized, we'll have access to a very deep and rich database
00:12:31
of Referenceable accounts we've had.
00:12:36
We call the ROI analysis of the what we call the five success
00:12:39
metrics.
00:12:40
So we ask a customer what are the three to five success
00:12:44
metrics for your outbound calling campaign?
00:12:46
And they'll say something like our answer rates have to improve
00:12:50
, our talk time Needs to improve .
00:12:53
Our decline rates, you know, go down.
00:12:56
Our call back rates go up because even with first Orion,
00:12:59
when somebody doesn't answer, it says whoever that company was
00:13:03
in their call log tried to.
00:13:05
So now their call back rates go up.
00:13:08
So they define that success metric on the front end and then
00:13:11
we measure the analytics, which are very rich, the kind of the
00:13:17
success of the metrics that they define as critical, and so we
00:13:22
have that published in a certain section as well.
00:13:25
We have lots of conversations and stories and guidance that we
00:13:30
offer to those partners to help them sell on our behalf.
00:13:34
Maciej: There is obviously the overall strategy of first Orion
00:13:40
as a company and what you were, what you are aiming to achieve.
00:13:44
But what role do partnerships and partnerships and
00:13:48
collaborations, what role do they play in that strategy?
00:13:53
If you could elaborate a little bit on that.
00:13:59
Mike Coleman: Sure.
00:13:59
So our strategy, as I mentioned , is to create that awareness
00:14:03
within the channel community about this solution, which
00:14:06
really has two different flavors .
00:14:07
One is the 32 character text string, which allows you to
00:14:12
define who's calling and why in text, but we also have a
00:14:16
solution that includes the logo.
00:14:17
So we have a solution called engage.
00:14:20
Now it's an SDK based, where you have to have an SDK software
00:14:24
developer kit on your app, right, but it allows the company
00:14:28
that's calling you if you have, for example, their app on your
00:14:31
phone it will come through with the logo of the company that's
00:14:36
calling and the reason for the call.
00:14:38
So it's a very powerful kind of imaging process as well.
00:14:43
So when we were working on a non SDK version of that as well,
00:14:48
and so that's the future right of calling, where not only can
00:14:52
we identify now with the 32 character string For these
00:14:55
partners to be able to share that with their customers, now
00:14:57
we can add other things on top of that, like, for example, the,
00:15:01
the ability to add a customer's logo.
00:15:04
In addition, we have some other things that are very unique to
00:15:07
first Orion, and one is called paired.
00:15:10
So it's a paired solution that comes with our informed product
00:15:14
and essentially it requires an API integration, but it's a very
00:15:19
simple solution where, essentially, the outbound calls
00:15:23
we define as an A number, meaning the number you're
00:15:25
calling from, and B is the company number you're calling.
00:15:29
So when A calls B, this API integration detects that A is
00:15:35
calling B and so essentially we're eliminating the
00:15:42
interceptability of that for a spoofing purpose.
00:15:44
And only when A is calling B in what we call a time to live,
00:15:48
which you can define as 30 or 60 seconds, will the branding
00:15:53
traverse the call.
00:15:55
So companies, especially banks and financial institutions that
00:15:58
are really worried about their calls being spoofed or
00:16:02
intercepted, this is a very unique solution that essentially
00:16:05
enables them to ensure that when that branding traverses the
00:16:11
networks and speak, it's only when A is calling B that because
00:16:14
they've told us they're calling that number.
00:16:16
Otherwise the call will go through, but it won't go through
00:16:19
with any branding.
00:16:19
We've also added another layer of solutions, if you will, if
00:16:24
you think about kind of the stack, and it's called century
00:16:28
and we're actually able to block outbound calls when we've
00:16:32
detected that it's being spoofed by what we call bad actors, and
00:16:38
so that's a really interesting solution that many banks and
00:16:41
financial institutions are embracing insurance companies
00:16:44
and such because they have a challenge with spoofing where
00:16:48
companies are calling allegedly on their behalf and they're not,
00:16:53
and extracting information, money whatever from those
00:16:58
customers because they think so and so is calling.
00:17:00
So we've added lots of different layers, and so that's
00:17:03
the value stack that we offered to the channel partners that
00:17:05
they can then sell to their customers and prospects.
00:17:10
Maciej: Perfect and in terms of your channel overall, just
00:17:16
looking back at last year, 2023, how did channel perform for
00:17:21
First Orion?
00:17:23
Mike Coleman: Exceptionally well .
00:17:24
We effectively tripled the revenue over 2022, which was
00:17:31
just a wonderful stat to be able to share, and we've branded
00:17:38
well over a billion and a half calls in 2023, which is just
00:17:45
amazing.
00:17:46
And obviously, with that trajectory, we're expecting to
00:17:49
brand significantly more than that here in 2024.
00:17:53
So the channel has done really well.
00:17:55
We've expanded the team, we've added quite a few different
00:17:58
channel sales reps, we've incorporated quite a few new
00:18:02
channel partners into the First Orion family.
00:18:04
We're actually recruiting a few others selectively.
00:18:09
So at this point, and we're really starting to build that
00:18:13
momentum within the channel community, the awareness, the
00:18:17
differentiation, and then we co-sell with them, where our
00:18:20
teams will actually help them sell the solution for the first
00:18:23
couple of deals so that they get the handle and get the feel for
00:18:26
it, and then at that point then we've trained the trainer, if
00:18:31
you will, and off they go.
00:18:33
Maciej: Right and interesting.
00:18:35
You said interesting.
00:18:37
I suppose it goes hand in hand.
00:18:39
When you have results like this , you do hire more people
00:18:42
because there's going to be more demand, there's bigger plans.
00:18:47
If you tripled it last year, I'm sure the board members are
00:18:51
asking for more, as it usually is Never enough.
00:18:55
So when you started at First Orion, how big was the channel
00:19:01
team versus what it is now?
00:19:05
Mike Coleman: When I first started.
00:19:06
We've doubled the team since then and I'm coming up on two
00:19:11
and a half years.
00:19:11
So we've doubled the team and tripled the revenue and we
00:19:17
expect that trajectory to continue this year.
00:19:20
Maciej: And with hiring people specifically for those channel
00:19:26
roles.
00:19:26
How do you approach building a high-performing channel team?
00:19:31
What qualities do you look for when you bring in new team
00:19:36
members?
00:19:36
When you scan through CVs that make onto your desk, what is it
00:19:42
that you look for?
00:19:43
Mike Coleman: Another great question.
00:19:45
As you can see, it's kind of an art and a science.
00:19:49
Maciej: So the science, definitely the definition of the
00:19:52
channel, isn't it?
00:19:54
Mike Coleman: Yes.
00:19:55
So the science side of it is that we look for people that
00:19:59
have deep channel experience, have solid kind of ecosystem
00:20:04
relationships with existing partners, existing vendors, if
00:20:10
you will, publishers, whatever you say kind of in that
00:20:12
ecosystem.
00:20:13
They have a good network of existing customers that they've
00:20:17
been working with through those channel partners.
00:20:18
But we look for that as a starting point because it's for
00:20:23
us as a fairly small company growing quickly, we don't have
00:20:28
the luxury of training those folks in terms of what a channel
00:20:33
is.
00:20:33
So we look for folks that come with great experience and we
00:20:35
found quite a few folks that have been great additions to the
00:20:39
team.
00:20:39
So that's kind of the first thing we look for.
00:20:41
The second thing we look for is really the cultural fit,
00:20:46
because first, orion is a very I'll call it a familial family.
00:20:49
It's we kind of nurture and support and really help folks
00:20:54
become successful from a channel perspective and need to be a
00:20:58
really good cultural fit within the organization.
00:21:00
So obviously that's really important and we cherish the
00:21:03
culture that we've built and we want to make sure we maintain
00:21:05
that, and so the cultural fit is critical.
00:21:09
Then we need somebody that I the way I look at it is that has
00:21:13
kind of a diversified background that understands
00:21:16
technology, understands the selling process, understands
00:21:19
empathy as a good listener to their partners, to their
00:21:23
customers, understands that a channel partner has to be
00:21:25
profitable right, because it can't all be about us at their
00:21:29
expense, right.
00:21:30
That's a recipe for disaster.
00:21:32
So we're very careful to make sure that those folks that we
00:21:37
interview are mindful of that, have a good history of success
00:21:41
in that channel organization, mindful of the fact that it is a
00:21:44
give get kind of thing where we give them a product to sell, we
00:21:48
get revenue, but we also have to give them a survivable margin
00:21:53
right and a profitability base that makes sense.
00:21:56
And we have a solid channel partner program that we've built
00:22:00
, channel portal that we leverage.
00:22:03
We have the guardrails in place to keep them kind of the
00:22:06
channel partners, comfortable with the fact that they can
00:22:09
share with us their prospects and their pipeline.
00:22:12
Once they register it, it gets protected in Salesforce and such
00:22:16
.
00:22:16
So I think we've built what I consider to be a really solid
00:22:20
kind of foundation to support the success of the folks, the
00:22:25
channel folks that we've hired, and I think that's been a really
00:22:28
good, solid recipe for success in 23.
00:22:31
And certainly in my career, those lessons continue to
00:22:35
persist as you move into this year and beyond.
00:22:39
Maciej: So when you talk about, you're looking at people who do
00:22:45
have existing relationships with partners, etc.
00:22:48
That sounds to me that you are still in a partner recruitment
00:22:52
mode.
00:22:52
You still need more partners.
00:22:55
Mike Coleman: We do.
00:22:55
We do Well, to your point earlier, we've tripled the
00:22:58
business from 22 to 23,.
00:23:00
But it's never enough, right?
00:23:02
The quotas we've just been assigned are significant.
00:23:05
I always say that we need as many oars in the water as
00:23:11
possible to row this boat.
00:23:12
The channel oars for us are incredibly powerful.
00:23:19
As I mentioned, we'll be selective in the recruiting but
00:23:22
at the same time, we're still very much interested in
00:23:25
embracing channel partners that are interested either in
00:23:29
learning more about our solution , those that have already
00:23:32
learned about it from others that want to get in on the
00:23:35
opportunity, and those that haven't even expressed interest
00:23:39
yet.
00:23:39
That we meet at.
00:23:40
We attend a lot of trade shows and a lot of partner events.
00:23:44
In those conversations and in those meetings we find, to your
00:23:48
point earlier, there's a lot of supporting vendors that aren't
00:23:54
competing with us but they can leverage, especially CCAS, cpas
00:23:58
players.
00:23:58
They can leverage the power of a branded call because their
00:24:01
call center solutions rely on people answering the phone the
00:24:05
other end, right, we've partnered with folks in that
00:24:07
ecosystem as well that have helped propel us and we help
00:24:11
propel them.
00:24:14
Maciej: Looking ahead, this is where we are.
00:24:16
We finished 2023.
00:24:17
It is January.
00:24:18
You've received your quotas.
00:24:21
You're hiring people.
00:24:23
What is the most exciting thing for you as the channel chief at
00:24:31
First Orion?
00:24:31
When you look to the future, what is it that excites you the
00:24:34
most?
00:24:36
Mike Coleman: The thing that drew me to First Orion was the
00:24:40
fact that we have an absolutely new and exciting solution that
00:24:47
solves a business problem that every company making outbound
00:24:50
calls has.
00:24:51
And my excitement and my challenge is to get the word out
00:24:56
so much broader and wider into the ecosystem, because the more
00:25:02
people that know about it, the more they can embrace it and
00:25:04
represent us into their customer base.
00:25:07
It brings real value to those channel partners.
00:25:09
We've had a couple of partners at a recent event that they've
00:25:13
invited me to speak at their Chamber of Commerce event in
00:25:17
Harrisburg, pennsylvania, believe it or not, because they
00:25:20
were so excited about the solution.
00:25:22
They wanted to tell all of their channel Chamber of
00:25:25
Commerce friends, so to speak, that this solution exists to
00:25:29
create the awareness.
00:25:30
It's a really interesting ecosystem.
00:25:32
That's what I'm most excited about is without a Super Bowl ad
00:25:37
budget, I need to leverage the channel partners to create that
00:25:41
awareness.
00:25:41
We have quite a few channel events coming up IT Expo, where
00:25:47
I'll be a speaker at IT Expo.
00:25:49
Channel partners, where we'll have a presence and hopefully a
00:25:53
speaking spot.
00:25:54
Those to us, those speaking spots in those channel events,
00:25:57
are super powerful because it's a one to many where I can tell
00:26:00
the story once, and then people come to the booth, which is
00:26:03
really a powerful message for us and that's part of our strategy
00:26:06
going forward this year.
00:26:09
Maciej: I asked you earlier about.
00:26:10
Do you have situations where people don't necessarily agree
00:26:16
or have some reservations?
00:26:18
That channel is one of the best way, if not the best way, to
00:26:22
get to market.
00:26:22
But, from your experience, what are common misconceptions that
00:26:28
you would have heard about the channel?
00:26:30
Mike Coleman: Yeah, that's a great point.
00:26:32
I've heard that through every company I've worked for.
00:26:34
I think the biggest misconception is that there's a
00:26:38
perception that channel is expensive.
00:26:40
It's not.
00:26:43
So my job is and I call it the fully burdened cost model where,
00:26:48
if you think about it, what would it cost us to hire a
00:26:51
direct sales rep?
00:26:52
What kind of a ramp do they have in terms of coming up to
00:26:56
speed?
00:26:57
What does the prospecting cycle look like for them?
00:26:59
How long will that take?
00:27:00
How much do we have to pay them in commissions?
00:27:02
How long will it take them to get to speed, if you will to
00:27:05
revenue?
00:27:07
And so we have to model that in a very honest way.
00:27:11
It says okay, here's the cost of a direct sales force, direct
00:27:14
sales person, etc.
00:27:15
Let's compare that to the channel where, in my world, it's
00:27:19
an off-payroll sales force but based on we have kind of a
00:27:24
wholesale model and a referral model.
00:27:25
So they're different in certain ways.
00:27:27
But anyway, the commission rate that we pay and or the
00:27:32
wholesale rate that we offer, is a very competitive base, if you
00:27:36
will, with which the partners can kind of make money.
00:27:40
And we factored our cost into those.
00:27:43
I'll call it base statistics, and so when you show that to the
00:27:51
leadership.
00:27:51
I think it becomes pretty obvious.
00:27:54
The other factor that well, I guess I should say it was an
00:27:58
assumption that what we call ASP , or average selling price,
00:28:02
would be lower from a channel partner than it would be from a
00:28:06
direct sale, and I think we've proven that it's not.
00:28:09
In some cases we actually have a higher ASP and in some cases
00:28:15
we're about flat, but it's definitely not the perceived
00:28:18
notion that the channel is very expensive and delivers revenue
00:28:26
at a lower average selling price .
00:28:27
And so I think those are some of the myths that we had to
00:28:30
dispel, and I think we've been successful at that so far.
00:28:33
Maciej: I'm glad that you haven't only just given me the
00:28:38
misconceptions, but also how you have, in the past, overcome
00:28:42
these.
00:28:43
That's really great.
00:28:44
Thank you for that.
00:28:45
And then I always ask this question nobody gets off the
00:28:52
podcast without hearing this question.
00:28:54
Mike, what is the one thing you wish you knew before you
00:29:00
started your career in channel?
00:29:01
Mike Coleman: Yeah.
00:29:02
So another really interesting question and I've given that
00:29:04
some thoughts since we kind of prepped.
00:29:06
So I think the answer is I wish I knew earlier the power of the
00:29:12
channel, how much fuel I would have had to put into the machine
00:29:16
to get it started, and then the speed with which you can
00:29:23
deliver through a channel partner network ecosystem is
00:29:28
incredibly powerful and what an extension it is.
00:29:30
And so we've proven that out time and time again.
00:29:32
But earlier in my career I didn't realize that that was as
00:29:36
powerful as it was, and part of the challenge was to have to
00:29:41
prove it ahead of revenue, to say to the leadership look,
00:29:46
we're going to invest as we are now.
00:29:47
We're building a channel program.
00:29:51
It doesn't start out with zero dollars, right, there's got to
00:29:53
be a funding mechanism in place to support the build.
00:29:56
We need tools, things that we put in place, and we need to
00:29:59
hire reps that you'll come with experience, and so I think all
00:30:03
of that has been a successful formula investing ahead of
00:30:06
revenue, knowing that when you kind of invest ahead of revenue,
00:30:11
you pour fuel into that machine , you get a benefit.
00:30:14
It may be a slight delay, but you see reasonably significant
00:30:21
awareness, pipeline build and activity over a fairly short
00:30:25
period of time.
00:30:26
That then proves to the leadership that this channel
00:30:30
thing is gaining traction.
00:30:32
It's building momentum and, generally speaking, it generally
00:30:37
in my case it's always paid off and been very successful.
00:30:42
When we look back on it we're like, wow, we should have done
00:30:44
that earlier.
00:30:48
Maciej: When do you think a company should start about
00:30:54
thinking of introducing channel into their go-to-market strategy
00:30:57
?
00:30:57
Just as a follow-up question to this, because there's so many,
00:31:04
I suppose it depends who you speak to and what stage the
00:31:06
company is at, but they kind of try to push it out as long as
00:31:11
they can before they start thinking about channel.
00:31:15
Is it at the scale-up?
00:31:17
Is it really from the get-go, from a startup type of motion,
00:31:22
or from your experience, from what you have seen, when do you
00:31:27
think is the right time?
00:31:29
Mike Coleman: Well, I think the way to start is, if you're
00:31:33
looking to build a sales machine , you need to bring in leaders
00:31:39
that have experience in both what I'll call the direct and
00:31:42
the channel side, because the leaders then can bring the
00:31:45
knowledge and experience about how to build it, what it will
00:31:48
cost and how soon you can expect to generate revenue as a result
00:31:53
.
00:31:53
I think some of the perception is that the direct sales force
00:31:57
and in many cases, it's true, is more visible, right, there's
00:32:02
more control over it.
00:32:04
You have a much tighter pipeline view because you can
00:32:08
see them entered into their sales force entries.
00:32:10
So I think that's the perception.
00:32:13
Well, let's start there.
00:32:13
My assertion and the reason that we've been successful at
00:32:18
First Derigne is because they brought me and essentially to
00:32:23
really get started early and to bring that experience to the
00:32:28
table, to really build out an ecosystem that could be as
00:32:33
powerful, if not more powerful, than a direct machine and, with
00:32:37
a bit of faith and support and understanding of the way that
00:32:43
the channel works and operates and the power that it can bring
00:32:46
when harnessed and fueled properly.
00:32:48
I think it's best to start maybe with both points of direct
00:32:54
and the enderline, so that you can at least measure the success
00:32:58
of both.
00:32:58
For early stage companies, sometimes you don't know what
00:33:02
you don't know and you don't know if the channel is going to
00:33:05
really be successful or direct is, or both or neither.
00:33:08
I should say Right.
00:33:10
You also have to have a product that's interesting to the
00:33:18
channel ecosystem right?
00:33:19
If you're just selling another widget that they already have 10
00:33:22
of with a different color, you know that's not really going to
00:33:28
resonate with the ecosystem because they already have a
00:33:31
solution that they can meet their customers needs.
00:33:33
For us, we're bringing something so unique and so
00:33:36
interesting and so easily understandable that it's easy
00:33:41
for them to either introduce us to their customers with faith
00:33:46
that we're going to represent them well, which we certainly do
00:33:50
or, once they get comfortable enough, they do it themselves.
00:33:53
It's so unique and interesting and easy to implement, which we
00:33:58
didn't really talk about.
00:33:59
All you need to do is register the outbound phone numbers with
00:34:04
our solution called free caller registrycom.
00:34:06
Essentially, once you register them, we vet those numbers to
00:34:10
make sure that your company owns those numbers right and that
00:34:12
you're not trying to be somebody you're not.
00:34:15
Once those numbers are vetted and we attest that they in fact
00:34:20
are owned by said company, then we allow you to kind of access
00:34:26
our portal and in that portal, as a partner doing it for the
00:34:30
customer or the customer doing it kind of after the partners
00:34:34
introduced them to it, then they have access to the portal where
00:34:37
they can actually in real time look at the essentially the
00:34:41
outbound call and what it will appear as if when it lands on
00:34:45
that B number or that cell phone right, and they can actually
00:34:49
decide how do I want that 32-character text string to look
00:34:53
?
00:34:53
Now, of course that has to be vetted too.
00:34:55
The carriers rely heavily on us to make sure that nothing
00:34:57
inappropriate is being entered into those 32-character string,
00:35:02
which is a big responsibility for us and something we take
00:35:06
very seriously.
00:35:07
But assuming the numbers are registered properly, the
00:35:10
businesses are vetted and the branding is vetted by us and by
00:35:16
the carrier so that it's OK, they can actually start
00:35:20
essentially A-B testing it too.
00:35:22
They may say big box retail appliance in route or big box
00:35:30
delivery in route, or they can play with it to see what.
00:35:33
Maybe that can tweak their answer rates or their successful
00:35:36
delivery rates.
00:35:38
We have one of our best examples is a blood donor company called
00:35:42
448.
00:35:43
They actually run call centers for companies like the American
00:35:46
Red Cross that essentially are looking for blood donors.
00:35:51
People don't answer the call when it's a blank number.
00:35:55
Now they have a great example, which is one of the reference
00:35:58
accounts that you'll see on our website, where there was an
00:36:03
unfortunate accident on Thanksgiving evening of last
00:36:06
year in one of the cities in Texas multiple trauma patients
00:36:12
transported to the hospital.
00:36:13
Turns out many of them were O-negative blood type.
00:36:16
The hospital was running out of O-negative.
00:36:18
They called the call center that our partner runs.
00:36:21
They put out an immediate call to their known donors in that
00:36:27
zip code saying XYZ blood centers, o-negative, urgent.
00:36:32
And the response they got because that call was identified
00:36:37
by the blood center and O-negative urgent was
00:36:39
significant and the CEO talks about that in some of the
00:36:43
testimonials that we have there.
00:36:44
So it's a great way to kind of put the humanness into it a
00:36:48
little bit, to explain how powerful the tool can be and how
00:36:52
in real time it essentially can be utilized and the success
00:36:56
that our partners have generated as a result of that Fantastic.
00:37:01
Maciej: Thank you, mike, for coming onto the show.
00:37:03
Thank you for introducing First Orion to us.
00:37:07
Thank you for educating me, especially on the branded
00:37:11
calling solutions, what they are and why are they so unique, but
00:37:16
also for telling us about your career in the channel, how you
00:37:22
run the channel today, what the plans are in terms of your
00:37:26
channel at First Orion.
00:37:27
It's been very educational for me.
00:37:30
Thank you very much for joining .
00:37:31
I hope I'll be speaking with you soon again.
00:37:34
Mike Coleman: I appreciate the opportunity Magic.
00:37:37
Thank you for having me and we'll certainly be in touch and
00:37:40
connect next time as well.
00:37:41
Thank you very much.
00:37:42
Thank you.
00:37:44
Maciej: And that's a wrap for this episode.
00:37:46
I do hope you found it valuable and, if you did, please make
00:37:50
sure to subscribe and leave a review.
00:37:51
You can also follow Channel Voices podcast on LinkedIn,
00:37:55
twitter and Facebook, or just visit Channelvoicescom, where
00:37:59
you can send me a message or leave a voicemail.
00:38:02
All of the links are listed in the show notes and, once again,
00:38:06
I appreciate you tuning in today Until next time.
00:38:09
Bye.